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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>Runtime Library Exception · t-core/licensing · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/index.html">t-core/licensing</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html">Runtime Library Exception</a></h3>

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<a name="245331494"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245331494" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245331494">(Jul 08 2021 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="215333">@Florian Gilcher</span> , you and I ages ago were looking at <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-builtins/issues/319">compiler-builtins#319</a></p>



<a name="245331609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245331609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245331609">(Jul 08 2021 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>after some recent activity, I looked at it again yesterday, and made a <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-builtins/issues/319#issuecomment-875933941">new comment</a>. Basically, I had failed to notice in the past that the original code says that it grants additional<br>
permissions described in the GCC Runtime Library Exception, version 3.1</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245331799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245331799">(Jul 08 2021 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>and you yourself noted that exception, in a different context, when you <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/63232#issuecomment-520238349">commented</a> on <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/63232">rust#63232</a></p>



<a name="245331951"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245331951" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245331951">(Jul 08 2021 at 15:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I’m curious what the best next step here is. The easiest path for short term would be to copy the appropriate text (i.e. GPL + Runtime Library exception) in to the <a href="http://riscv32.rs">riscv32.rs</a> code. I think that would allow us to close <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-builtins/issues/319">compiler-builtins#319</a></p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245332198" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245332198">(Jul 08 2021 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I know some other participants on the thread for <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-builtins/issues/319">compiler-builtins#319</a> have pushed a different argument, namely justifying keeping the code based on the code being trivial. I would prefer to avoid using that as our justification if we can avoid it, because I don’t want to get into the business of deciding what code is trivially uncopyrightable or not. Better to have a simple blanket policy that we can enforce, based solely on provenance.)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245332985" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245332985">(Jul 08 2021 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>The other potentially interesting wrinkle is: If we take the approach of adoping the GCC Runtime Library exception here, I would be like to spell out explicitly that <code>rustc</code> qualifies as an "Eligible Compilation Process”, because <code>rustc</code> is not work based on GCC. (I suppose the story there gets a little more complicated if one starts discussing the GCC Rust backend (<code>rustc_codegen_gcc</code>, discussed in <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/442">compiler-team#442</a>), but even then, that <code>rustc</code> should <em>also</em> be considered an "Eligible Compilation Process”, because it is GPL-compatible work combined with GCC.</p>



<a name="245340699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245340699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245340699">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> I'm not sure that we want compiler-builtins to become GPL-with-runtime-exception.</p>



<a name="245340733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245340733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245340733">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>GPL-with-runtime-exception still limits usage of compiler-builtins. It'd be preferable to keep it permissively licensed, since it's compiled into people's code.</p>



<a name="245340791"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245340791" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245340791">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right now, people are <em>allowed</em> to make their own private build of rustc, and use it to build their own binaries. That's something MIT and Apache 2.0 permit.</p>



<a name="245340818"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245340818" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245340818">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is there something preventing us from removing that code from compiler-builtins and replacing it?</p>



<a name="245340978"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245340978" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245340978">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>There seem to be a few people on that compiler-builtins issue that have a dangerous amount of non-understanding of how copyright and licensing work. :(</p>



<a name="245341050"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245341050" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245341050">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>It <em>seems</em> like the obvious answer here is to replace the current code with the code from LLVM.</p>



<a name="245341076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245341076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245341076">(Jul 08 2021 at 16:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>(And perhaps consider yanking old versions of compiler-builtins.)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245341356" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245341356">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Re-reading the thread, it looks like the same person who originally submitted the code to compiler-builtins is the same person arguing a dangerous misinterpretation of copyright. I would suggest, in general, that we consider refusing further contributions from them due to legal risk.)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245342195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245342195">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I know, I was definitely troubled by the attitudes presented on that thread.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245342356" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245342356">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="239881">Josh Triplett</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245341050">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It <em>seems</em> like the obvious answer here is to replace the current code with the code from LLVM.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>By “the code from LLVM”, you mean the assembly? (Use assembly directly? Or port the assembly to Rust?)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245342511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245342511">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>The main issue with a port of the assembly to Rust is the fact that the code <em>is</em> trivial, so doing it in a clean-room fashion seems all the more important.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245342748" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245342748">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245342195">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I know, I was definitely troubled by the attitudes presented on that thread.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(and also potentially outright trolling from sock puppet accounts? Hard to tell.)</p>



<a name="245343105"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245343105" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245343105">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245342356">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="239881">Josh Triplett</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245341050">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It <em>seems</em> like the obvious answer here is to replace the current code with the code from LLVM.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>By “the code from LLVM”, you mean the assembly? (Use assembly directly? Or port the assembly to Rust?)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Either port it to Rust directly, or add the assembly implementation, or both.</p>



<a name="245343130"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245343130" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245343130">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245342511">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The main issue with a port of the assembly to Rust is the fact that the code <em>is</em> trivial, so doing it in a clean-room fashion seems all the more important.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I really don't think it needs to be done clean-room, if we have the permissively licensed implementation from LLVM to go on. As far as I can tell, we have other code ported from LLVM.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245346284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245346284">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sorry: By “clean room”, I did mean porting the code from LLVM. Just doing so without looking at the existing implementation (i.e. without looking at the GPL-with-exception-licensed code).</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245346315" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245346315">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree that we shouldn’t have any trouble using code provided by LLVM.</p>



<a name="245347631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245347631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Florian Gilcher <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245347631">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a clean room implementation of that code around that i can contribute.</p>



<a name="245347677"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245347677" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Florian Gilcher <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245347677">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>(sorry for slacking on this, it has been sitting in my inbox for ~a month)</p>



<a name="245347778"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245347778" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Florian Gilcher <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245347778">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245332198">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(I know some other participants on the thread for <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-builtins/issues/319">compiler-builtins#319</a> have pushed a different argument, namely justifying keeping the code based on the code being trivial. I would prefer to avoid using that as our justification if we can avoid it, because I don’t want to get into the business of deciding what code is trivially uncopyrightable or not. Better to have a simple blanket policy that we can enforce, based solely on provenance.)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The problem with the "trivial" is that I would follow if the code wasn't _expressively_ contributed hinting at the GPL'ed code.</p>



<a name="245347887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245347887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245347887">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure, that of course is <em>also</em> a problem here.</p>



<a name="245348008"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245348008" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245348008">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>or is <em>the</em> problem. But I don’t want the end message to be “don’t attribute your sources.” The message needs to be: “Don’t use GPL’ed code as the basis for your contributions."</p>



<a name="245348123"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245348123" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245348123">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyway… I mostly wanted to point out that I don’t think the situation as inherently as bad as I had thought it was when I had discussed this with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="215333">@Florian Gilcher</span></p>



<a name="245348252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime%20Library%20Exception/near/245348252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Florian Gilcher <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/231349-t-core/licensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception.html#245348252">(Jul 08 2021 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/231349-t-core.2Flicensing/topic/Runtime.20Library.20Exception/near/245348008">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>or is <em>the</em> problem. But I don’t want the end message to be “don’t attribute your sources.” The message needs to be: “Don’t use GPL’ed code as the basis for your contributions."</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I still put the problem squarely on the reviewer side - that argument should have been had in the PR.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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